All I know about Pitchford

[David Pitchford]

...is hidden on a secret page on pitchford.com here:
http://www.pitchford.com/pitchford/

It clearly needs updating. Who can add to it..?

[Eric Johnson]

Hi David.
I went to your link and thought I'd do a little digging around and came up a little bit on the Bishop of Coventry, as well as, a little on who the Ottley family handed the Pitchford Estate to in 1807. So I sent a couple of emails to you for review and approval for inclusion to your story.
If you find it acceptable please share it with everyone interested. If you want I can post it on this forum, but thought it's rightfull place is on the Internet page you listed.
Regards,
Eric Johnson, California

[David Pitchford]

Hi Eric

Many thanks for the interesting emials. Please do post them here. When I get around to it I will add them to that page at pitchford.com (which is much harder than adding them to the forum here ;)

Best,

Dave

[Eric Johnson]

Hi David.

I did a little research into the Bishop of Coventry who acquired the Pitchford estate in 1301...this was of course after I read your column on the history of the earlier Pitchfords at your web site (http://pitchford.com/pitchford). This Bishop information at the time of the acquisition was obtained through an Internet search (wikipedia.org).

It seems that the person who held the title was Bishop Walter Langton (b 1243, d 1321). He was Bishop of Coventry and Lichfield from 1296 to 1321. He was surrounded with problems since 1307 when he was accused of murder, adultry and simony, and charged with witchcraft. His lands and moveable wealth was taken where he was thrown in prison from 1309 thru 1312. After released from prison he became Lord Treasurer (1312), dismissed as a member of the royal council in 1315, and died in 1321.

I don't know enough about the Crown and the Church during this time period to draw conclusions as to who obtained the Pitchford eatate. It seems the Church (?) picked it up in 1307.

Regards,

Eric Johnson, California

[Marie Fellows(Pitchford)]

At 1:57pm on April 26, 2009, Marie Fellows said…
This was written for my Grandchild - hence some of its simplicity.

The Pitchford Dynasty

-these are facts taken from various sources – Victoria County Histories, Brendon Smiths - “The De Pitchford families in 13th century Ireland. J Broomhall's -, Memorials of the family of Pitchford. And Eytons Antiquities. Anything written in italics is pure supposition or fantasy or what you will

On the 28th September 1066 William, Duke of Normandy sailed into Pevensey Bay, near Hastings. He disembarked with his armies and began to march towards Hastings. Among his men were two brothers, Ulgar (sometimes known as Roger) and Norman Venator or Venable, sons of a Norman Baron.

They arrived at a place called Battle, just outside Hastings and on October 14th waged battle with King Harold of England. Harold and his men were very tired and weary; they had just marched from Northumbria after defeating his brother Tostig at Stamford Bridge, who with King Hardrada of Norway, tried to take over the kingdom.

The exhausted English were no match for William and foolishly left their strong position on the crest of a ridge after Harold had been pierced in the eye with a Norman arrow. The Witan, the elders who surrounded the throne, declared that Edgar Atheling should be king, but when Edgar saw William and all his mighty forces surrounding London he offered him the crown of England. On the 25th of December 1066 William the First was crowned in Westminster Abbey.

There was now a short time for celebrations and William rewarded his barons. Roger Venator became Baron of Pulverbatch in Condover. Norman Venator was given the lands and manors of Lee Brockhurst in Shropshire, Albrighton and Pitchford. Little is known of Norman but he was living in England, sometimes in Normandy between 1085 and 1093. He had a son whom he named Ralph and because he was living in the manor of Pitchford he adopted the surname of Pitchford.

( note: It had been supposed that a Roger Venator, son of Baron de Gilbert who became Baron of Kinderton in Cheshire may have been Normans brother, thus making them both de Gilberts. I have not been able to establish which is right, however I favour the Pulverbatch link as it is in Shropshire where they both seem to have 'turned' up.)

Before William came to England, he made an enemy of the Lords of Belleme. They were huge men, with evil ways. They rode around Normandy fighting men, women and children. Because William wanted to keep an eye on him, and because he wanted as many soldiers as he could get, Robert of Belleme came to England with the invasion force and for his services was given Bridgenorth Castle.
William found an England ravaged by outlaws and unkind Masters. It was not safe to go into the forest alone. Many serfs and tenants had hardly anything to eat because their masters took nearly all they had in taxes. He decided it was time to make the land safe for all and his barons rounded up all those who would not obey the law. Feudal Lords were stripped of their manors if they were too unkind to their serfs and tenants. He made the forest safe and brought many animals to inhabit them so that he could indulge his favourite sport of hunting. No one else was allowed to hunt in his forests.

William's son Henry (1st) became king on the death of his brother William (2nd) from a riding accident. He had not expected to be king and studied law. He was a clerk. His brother Williams rule had not been as strict as his fathers. Outlaws and robbers were beginning to roam the land again. So Henry began to restore his father’s regime of bringing the lawless to book. One person however, was not going to change his ways and that was Robert of Belleme (sometimes called Belesomes). Robert Belleme carried on the family tradition of murder and pillage. Henry was not going to have anymore of this and in 1102 laid siege to Roberts castle in Bridgenorth, or Little Brug as it was called then.

As a dutiful Lord, Ralph Pitchford fought with Henry and when the castle was taken Ralph prepared a good chamber for Henry. To keep the room warm Ralph gathered much firewood for the fire, which never went out while the King was there. Henry was very grateful and decided to make Ralph a Knight and he held Bridgenorth for the King and had tenants serving under him

Ralph had one son and a daughter, Richard (1) and Alice Erneburga. Alice Erneburga married into the de Burgo family. Richard (1) died in 1176, we don’t know whom he married but he left two sons, Nicholas, the youngest was born around 1170, his fate is not recorded. His eldest son, Hugh, married Burga de Baskerville of the famous Baskerville family, he died in 1211 leaving two sons Ralph (2) William and a daughter Isabella. Ralph (2) as well as inheriting his father’s lands in Shropshire, inherited lands in Warwickshire Derbyshire and Leicestershire, through his mother. Ralph (2) married 1st Margery le Strange and when she died he married a lady named Alice and had three sons named John (2) Geoffrey and Ralph (3).

In 1232, Henry III gave Ralph (2) a license for holding a market and fair in Albrighton. Imagine it: lots of squealing pigs, screeching chickens, Jugglers, lute players and acrobats, the Morris dancers with bells on their legs, one with antler horns on his head trotting about on his hobbyhorse. And all around the smell of hot meat pies, ale and rotting vegetables; the heady perfumes of those who passed close by, used in excess to hide the smell of unwashed bodies and clothes. Worst of all, the gutters flowing with offensive sludge. This was the how our ancestors lived.

Prior to his departure for Ireland in 1226 Ralph 2 arranged for his brother William to keep his estates in Pitchford. But William died in 1242 and his wife Mathilda had to ask Ralph (2) if she could be possessed of the Manor of Sutton in Derbyshire. Geoffrey Pitchford (of Wenlock) was constable of Windsor Castle and steward to Edward 1. He also held lands in Derbyshire, Sussex, Surrey and Cambridge and died in 1305

In 1234 Ralph (2) was made Constable of Drogheda Castle and Sheriff of Louth, in Ireland.

The year 1234 also saw Ralph (2) applying for wardship of the lands and person of John Fitz Dermot the young son and heir of Dermot Mac Gillecholmoc king of Ui Dunchada in South Dublin. He needed sureties of 300 marks. Ralph Fitz Nicholas, a cousin pledged 100 marks, William his brother pledged 40 marks and his mothers relative Walter de Baskerville pledged 100 marks towards the sureties.

Around 1244, the manors of Dowth and Linns in Ireland came into the possession of Ralph (2). We know this because there is court evidence of a dispute between him and a Baldwin de Flemming concerning 5 pieces of land around some crofts. Ralph won.

When he died in 1253 his son 16 year old John (2), the child of his second wife Alice took possession of those lands in Ireland and became Sheriff of Louth. Later he married Margaret Deveraux. While he (John2) was in Ireland Bertram de Burgo held the manor of Lee Brockurst by payment of half a hide, half a knights fee, twopence moot fee, (sort of rates) twopence street ward (a wardens fee) and suit twice yearly to the Great Hundred. The Great Hundred was the administrative council of an area larger than a village and smaller than a county. It is where criminals were judged and local affairs sorted out by placing your ‘suit’.

From 1270 John 2 appointed people to manage his lands and affairs in Ireland, which meant he spent more time in England than his predecessors. In 1277 he declines to fight with Edward 1st due to infirmity,against Llewellyn and his lands are forfeited and given to Bishop Walter Langton of Lichfield and Coventry. John (2) died in 1285. His wife Margaret went to Ireland in 1301 and her son Ralph (4) travelled back and forth between England and Ireland between 1285 and his death in 1303. Ralph (4) seems to have left no heirs.

In 1268 a Ralph de Pitchford of Shropshire stood bail for a Ralph Pipard. Which Ralph was it?

As Ralph (2) died in 1253 and his son John (2) was not old enough to have had a son old enough to stand bail it seems probable that Ralph (2) also had a son Ralph. ergo, Ralph (3) could be the Ralph of 1268.

The year of 1348 brought the Black death to England and in places whole settlements were wiped out. Rich and poor alike died. Also 1435 saw the first battle of the Wars of the Roses these ended with the Battle of Bosworth in 1485. As there has not yet been found of any evidence of the existence of the Pitchford family between 1349 and around 1500 when a John Pycheford was born in Lee Brockhurst Shropshire– one of the manors given to Norman Venator- we must speculate that both of these tragic events wiped out the family.

Nicholas de Picheford was lord of Cantelow Cambridge in 1316, he was married to a lady called Joan, she was a widow no records have been found as to whether he had any children. Likewise with William and Ralph (3).

Could we suppose that during these troubled times Nicholas who was the last Pitchford to die had sired a son, who survived the plague. Some friend or a relative of his wife may have taken the child in. It would be about 150 years before the name reappears, so perhaps the child was taken to France, maybe to Normandy where he could have been housed with the cousins or ancestors of Ulgar and Norman Venator. There were troubled times between England and France which could be the reason for so long an absence from England. Could John Pycheford of Lee Brockhurst be the son or grandson of a knight who came over from France with Henry 7th?

[Marie Fellows(Pitchford)]

I have to admit, piecing together some bits of information I have made a mistake.. Old age creeping up I suppose. Roger Venator of Condover and Roger Venator of Kinderton are the same., Fathers name was Gilbert De Venables. Which means that the first Pitchford was actually Norman, the son of Gilbert De Venables, Forgive me. It is so long since I did any work on this part of the family. I didi try to edit the comment but I left it too late.. There are a lot of links which give the lineage of the De Veanbles of Normandy, in order to get more information. Mea culpa,

Marie

[Lindsey Hagen]

What a wonderful story and interesting information. I really enjoyed reading it, great work Marie.

[Eric Johnson]

Hi, Marie!!

What a great story on the ancient Pitchfords! I know it took a tremendous amount of effort/research/time to piece that all together. Thanks for sharing.

I'm still plugging along trying to put together the family trees I promised to give to everyone toward the end of last year. Don't count me out. It has been a daunting task...

I found myself looking into the Medieval Pitchfords too and found a couple tidbits of information:

1) The children of Ralph (1), son of Norman Venator, are listed in "Eyton's Antiquities of Shropshire" as Richard, Engelard, and Alice, true. But where the family tree line goes to what seems to be Alice Erneburga, it turns out that the person who drew the line to Alice missed her and the line landed on Erneburga (which conveniently is directly next to Alice making it appear as Alice's last name). Now I'm looking through my papers and wouldn't you know it I can't find the page (possible errata to Eyton's work) that points out this small error. Anyway, it was Engelard who married Erneburga. And they had a daughter Felicia.

2) I picked up a photocopy of a article from the "Topographer and Genealogist" dated 1853, p 506-511, that discusses the Pedigree of Pitchford which lists the children of Ralph who died in 1303. Keep in mind the author listed the three children with dotted lines connecting to their father which makes me believe this is an assumption that needs to be verified. The children were Ralph of Littlebrug, Nicholas Lord of Cantelow, and William enfeoffed of La More. I did a little more study into William and believe he married Joan and had a daughter Alice. William died in 1349 when Alice was 6 years old. This last part was obtained on the web at British History Online.

I hope this helps in your quest to find more of the early Pitchfords.

Best regards, Eric

[Lindsey Hagen]

Hi Eric,
I also have been following your progress on genealogy.com. I have not requested a copy of your tree as yet, but,
I was glad to see you on Pitchford Place. Please include me. My ancestors stop when they arive here in 1702.
There are some guesses, but don't know. I have a site at lhagen.tribalpages.com with my Pitchford line.
You are welcome to visit any time. It is open right now and does not need a password. Have just started working on it again and have tons of information to add to it. If you do visit it, I would enjoy your note in the guestbook.
I am looking forward to seeing your work on the Pitchfords in England.
Lindsey

[Eric Johnson]

Hi Lindsey.

This family tree chart that I sent out at the beginning of last year has caused my head to spin from time to time! It seems it takes 10 pounds of effort to produce one ounce of results. The parish records (that are available in print) cover the time period from ca 1700 to ca 1815. This makes it too early for entry into the 1841 Census records. There are huge gaps in the parish records that are EXACTLY where the most important Pitchford information is lost! Go figure. Murphy's Law I guess. However... I have split my original (one) tree showing John Pitchford who married Margaret Rhodes ca 1733 Dawley, Shropshire away from the Astley, Shropshire Pitchfords. After weeks of looking at the available records it was clear to me these are two lines (please see postings on RootsWeb and GenForum sites). Where they converge, if at all, is still a mystery. Anyway, as I ramble on and on, I would like to say that at some point in time the two family tree charts will be made available and mailed out to any and all interested. Even though these charts list the England Pitchfords, sometime a USA Pitchford chart should be done also. More time and effort = some time in the distant future!

I went on your tribalpages site and meandered around. Very nicely done! Love the pictures. As you are descended from, I'm sure you are painfully aware that your first Samuel in America b ca 1705 has been researched and speculated to the n-th degree. However I noticed you have a tidbit I've never seen before: the Kentucky land grants. I've also heard that Samuel's parents were Joseph and Elizabeth. If so, that would put Joseph b ca 1680-1685. And so the problem with the England parish records mentioned above makes tracking a potential Joseph down problematic.

The Astley parish records start at 1695 and list the children of William b ca 1672 and brother Thomas b ca 1674. Their children were all born between 1697 and 1717. Now, what's interesting is that one of William's grandsons was named Joseph. And to add more to this line is that the USA Samuel b ca 1705 father is a contender as a younger brother of William and Thomas of Astley. The fit would be nice. Joseph moves to America so would not be listed in the Astley parish records. Hmm.

Now another possibility could be that this USA Samuel could be closer to the Dawley line of Pitchfords. The early John and Margaret Rhodes Pitchford had a son Samuel. Samuel died young. Another son of John and Margaret had a grandson Samuel as well, and the name Samuel continues down one line to 1812. I'm not sure if Joseph or Samuel were popular names during the late 17th, early 18th century, but it's definitely worth pondering.

As soon as I clean up any pencil marks I'll go through the invite on the charts again. Stay tuned. Also I have to provide a disclamer that this will alway be a work-in-progress, that there will be errors and omissions, and that I will be relying heavily on all who view it to help correct mistakes and add new information to them.

Best regards,

Eric

[Lindsey Hagen]

Thank you for the nice reply Eric,
I have a stack of paper and tons of saved information on my hard drive that I will need to go through,
when I do I will send anything I find that looks to be of interest. I get a lot more confused than you do, but never get tired of researching. Please feel free to visit tribalpages whenever you want. I tried to put sources on but they did not turn out as I wanted, so I will tackle that when I can. I do have a lot of land records, will, parish and so on. Also have Joseph and Elizabeth and found one place where Edward was listed as the father of Joseph, but not sourced. It is not sourced anywhere that Joseph and Elizabeth were married, that I have been able to find. They could have been siblings and both married others, not as likely, but? Will pass on anything I think might shed a light, to you, when I uncover it from the piles.
Thank you again,
Lindsey

[Eric Johnson]

On my May 1st blurb, item (1) I wasn't able to quote where I found the comment on Alice daughter of Ralph (1) as not having a last name of Erneburga. I found it.

"The Journal of the Birtish Archaelogical Association," Vol. XXXII, London, 1876, page 39. This article starts on page 32 and deals with the "...Altar Tomb at Albridhton, County Salop," by J.R. Planche, Esq., Somerset Herald, V.P. He mentions "There was also an Alice de Pichford, daughter by his first wife of the Ralph de Pichford who heads the pedigree of that family, and half-sister of his son Englehard of Stretton. An unfortunate slip of Mr. Eyton's printer in the Pichford pedigree has substituted for this Alice, Ereburga, the wife of her brother; but putting aside this obvious typographical error, I have only to call your attention to the fact that Ralph Fitz Nicholas was the owner of Stretton Baskerville, co. Warwick, by descent from Alice his grandmother, which thought perfectly distinct from Church Stretton in Shropshire, with which Englehard was connected, suggests a confusion demanding investigation. That Englehard married there can be no doubt, for in his charter confirming the gift of his half-brother Richard to Haughmond Abbey he expressly alludes to his wife ('uxoris meae'), but unfortunately without naming her family."

Regards,

Eric

[Lindsey Hagen]

Eric, you find so much interesting stuff. I cannot access my external hard drive with this PC, it is set up for a Mac only at this time. I thought otherwise? My computer is still out. Where did you access the Journal above? I would like to read some of it. All of my access sites are listed on my Mac. I do not know if I will loose that, but I will be lost without it. Overtime, I have acquired many places to visit and never thought about saving that info. (Bookmarked and saved by topic and names).

Lindsey